Why?

Got any evidence that shows that EVE will die if the core of the game isn't gutted and replaced with the safety every single other failed MMO provides?

Meanwhile I will just point out that the last expansion in December, which added even more ways to be killed in high sec, has resulted in a boom in player numbers. This tells us that people want to fight in high sec and not be utterly safe.

What's good about EVE other than that the players are allowed the maximum possible freedom to interact with each other?

If I ever leave then it is more likely because of all the drama Goons & Co. create. Reading here is almost like watching another episode of this vampire saga...

Do you remember how awesome Starwars galaxies was when becoming a Jedi was hard?
And a 10 vs 1 fight was fair because Jedi's were badass?

That was awesome, huge amounts of fun and when you met a Jedi it was all "ooooo, you're amazings"

Then they changed it so EVERYONE was a Jedi within 5mins of starting the game... and then subscriptions fell away.



Anything worth having is rarely easy to acquire and easy to acquire things are rarely worth having.

More drama. Go away.

I don't know.

The truth of the matter EvE the game and its subsequent development will only be around if there are many subscriptions paying the bills.

So lets say there are 450,000 subscriptions and we'll just assume that everyone pays $14.95 per month to play (this is obviously not the case since Plex is actually more and some people pay less by paying yearly for their subscriptions. Also this in USD and no the Euro excludes taxes).

So the total CCP makes gross per month is $6,727,500

If 1% of players quite because of ganking then that is 4500 players which doesn't seem like a lot over all.

But that is $67,275 in lost revenue.

Thats more than a years worth for a computer programmer used to advance eve.

The numbers might even be higher depending (it might be lower as we don't have the numbers of ganks from CCP).

Now the question you have to ask is "Will more people quit EvE because they can't gank than quite because they are ganked?"
If the answer is more people will quit because they are ganked then obviously CCP is finacially obligated as a business to cut back on the possible ganking.

The best evidence to prove that CCP actually loses subscriptions (and money) due to ganking is simply the fact they buffed minging barges after hulkageddon.

If there was no finacial reason to buff the mining barges they would not have spent the resources (development, Q&A, and balancing) to actually have made the change.

In conclusion the truth of the matter is CCP is obligated as a business to reduce ganking and other activies that reduce subscriptions.

I predict this will happen whether you protest on the forums or not as the forums are only a fraction of the player base.

I suspect CCP knows that gankers will just play other forms of PvP when they nerf ganking in the future.

More drama.

Are you this blind that you cannot see that I won't care for your comments?

You need to read more. I don't have a dog in this fight, check the killboard, see any dead haulers or mining ships? I don't mine or carebear. I do PVP support in fleets. You are reading what you want to read at this point. I am saying that CCP has to get over catering to griefing or we are going to be stuck roaming and playing grabasss on gates instead of pew pewing. I just don't think EVE revolves around griefing, if it does though and I am wrong it's days are numbered. You have to remember Anarchy Online is still up what 13 years later? EVE is only a year and a half older than wow. CCP wants some more benjamins and I don't blame them. They can do that without theme-parking.

By "catering to griefing" are you referring to non-consensual PvP? Because that's pretty much a core theme of EVE. Getting rid of that would be like making rugby into a non contact game. Go play volleyball if that's what you want.

My evidence that ganking reduces subscriptions is the fact that CCP buffed mining barges after hulkaggeddon.

Why would they spend the effort to change this if it is not to prevent lost subs?

If ganking was fine and just emergent gameplay they would have left it alone.

Yes there was a lot of complaints on the forums, but I beleive they used exit polls when people canceled their subscriptions as their reason to make the change.

People complaining on the forums threating to cancel their subscription does not always equal lost subs (the person may not go through with it), but when actual subscription cancellation happen and they give the reason "my ship was ganked" then obviously they decided to do something about it.

Again, obviously there was some sort of problem as they changed the game mechanics to buff miner barges.

If CCP wasn't worried about losing subs they would have done nothing.

If there was a space game with equally complex and challenging content, but without all the huffin' and puffin', then EVE could possibly see the biggest loss in player numbers in its history.

I stay with EVE because I like it, but certainly not all of it. I like winning more than I like losing and I don't take joy out of a fight where I lose and only my loss is smaller than that of my opponent. This is where most of the drama starts. If I could get a better game then I'd buy it and if I then have little time left for EVE would I be leaving.

Just saying... I post this here so that you and others can understand what it is that makes someone stay. You will now argue that there is no alternative to EVE, but that does not mean I am wrong or that I am playing EVE wrong.

I really dislike all this drama and if I could move on from it then I would. Until then do I have hopes that EVE will change to the better.

Fair enough?

Damn right.

I have no idea what you are talking about or what the meaning of your response is. All I can read is that you want CCP to close the doors of high-sec to you.

Would you mind trying again?

If eve should be a place where everyone can enjoy level 4 mission running and nobody bothers anyone else, then what game should my friends and I be playing? Believe me when I tell you that we've looked, and there are no games that give us the gameplay we want. We came to eve because of what it allows us to do and stay because there are no better options.

To those saying that allowing this sort of gameplay is a bad business model, the term you're looking for is product differentiation. Let's look at this argument under a different lens. You say that McDonalds sells the most food and makes the most profit of any restaurant on the planet so all restaurants should be McDonalds. You wander into a largeish non-chain restaurant and demand a Big Mac, only to be informed that this is the sort of quiet, intimate place where you might take your wife for some high quality french food. You start losing your mind and screaming that's not how you run a business and you'll take your pants off and **** on the patrons until you receive a Big Mac.

I think you're just in the wrong restaurant.

In that respect, if you say that there is no proof that ganking cause subscription losses then the opposite seems to be true.

You can not prove to me that ganking increases subscriptions or keeps them at the same level.

I'll admit there are not true numbers floating around, but I am making a logical inference that the balancing happened because event A seemed to correspond with even B. Perhaps my logic is flawed but it seems pretty suspicious that only after Hulkageddon did they buff mining barges.

Also lets consider this story why ganking may cause a subscription loss...

You are a miner and enjoy mining. You want to mine the most ore possible. Back in the day the ultimate ship was the Hulk. But it is expensive. Maybe 150 million isk (I don't remember the exact numbers) but for a miner starting out that might mean tens of hours worth of mining.

So they spend the better part of a month finally saving up enough isk to buy that hulk. They go out and fly it all happy their hard work paid off.

Then suddenley on the day they first start to mine... Gank happens. The newbie miner is out of a ship and no isk to show for it. Sure the people who ganked him are concorded but doesn't help him get his isk back. The insurance (if he could have afforded it) doesn't even cover a fraction of the ship cost.

What is the logical thing to do for a logical person at this point? Well cause and effect shows him that if he spends time saving up for a hulk that he will simply lose it. The most reasonable thing for this miner to do at this point is to quit the game.

Why should he waste all that time only to lose his hard earned money?

At this point he cancels his subscription and goes plays Star Treak Online.

And many of you say "Good riddance! We didn't need that player!" but that means lost money for CCP, who as a business, must worry about how to pay the bills.

Sure this may not have happened in this exact scenario but how many of those hulks in hulkaggedon quit their subscription?

I'm sure some people kept going after their first hulk loss, but what about the second? Or third? Why keep playing after that point? It is logically in this regard that ganking must cause subscription losses of some sort.

Pretty much this.

And I pick one of your formulas to add that if FFA PVP was that good and awesome as many claim, the test server would be more populated, which it isn't.

That would be proof of correlation, not causation.

Two VERY different things. It's actually quite hard to prove why people leave unless in the exit poll they put

"I'm leaving because I keep getting blown up when I do stupid things"

3. That player who left for STO was replaced by someone else who wasn't and idiot miner. When faced with the chance of getting killed, he decided to fit a tank to his ship rather than quit in a fit of rage. Your friend is not ready for EVE, its best that he plays a no risk MMO.

Wow? So you think people are going to unemploy themselves for your amusment?

CCP is a business. The owners of the business aren't running the company simply for your amusment. They are doing it in order to maximize their profit.

Sure some companies sacrifice short term profit for long term profit or intangibles (like good will), but in the end of the day if the business does not make as large as a profit as possible they are doing it wrong and will go out of business sometime in the future.

In return I'm telling you your argument is a strawman one since in this very same forum and thread some say Eve is becoming a theme park game and others asking for a full pvp server everywhere from VFK-IV up to Jita.

peh...

Reading this kind of thread and answer really proves me I'm better at the bar having a nice paint rather than waste my time around here.

Cheers.

How in the world is this lost on so many of you?

Just proves what I said. You take it too serious.

Nobody likes playing a game, any game, with someone who plays it too serious.